Last week, CAD posted up a video (can’t find the link atm) of Tim drawing something, and now Kurtz has bellied up to the bar and put his PvP drawing process up. Both use sped up film for effect. Both use music. Neither have acknoledged at all that they were inspired by, oh I don’t know, Diary of a Cartoonist maybe?
I am actually all for this. I LOVE to see how others are doing their work, etc. But do we now live in a world where its so hard to give credit to one’s inspiration for an idea? I do it all the time. I wonder if I am misguided and should just act like every derivitive thing I have ever done never came from somewhere else.
Diary was one of the first things where I really felt like I was doing something totally original with my stuff. Come on, guys! Can I have at least one? Working in webcomics is like trying to find an honest salesman in Tijuana.
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I don’t think you’re misguided Scott. Unfortunately not everyone thinks the way we do about those that came before. Sounds way more dramatic than I intend it but you get the drift.
I also have the distinct impression that if this were PA doing it, they would throw me a nod. Thats just the way they seem to roll over there.
Yeah, well PvP has always run on the old saying “what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine, too.”
Scott’s Diary Of A Cartoonist is by far the best I’ve seen. Goes to show…you can imitate but you just can not duplicate.
I’ve always felt like CAD was a little less than original…but the guy is young still maybe he will find his way.
But Kurtz….phttlll…puhlease.
bah CAD is sometimes funny, usually egotistical. PvP is the same. The only comix i can count on to chuckle are EL, VGCats and PA. Dont worry about it, they are like Sony claiming to not copy the Wii and inventing 3D
I couldn’t expect more really, Tim from CAD, although he makes could comments, is just blatently an arrogant twat. You can tell by the way he writes. That’s my opinion anyways, not going to stop my reading his comic, but theft isn’t something I’d look past with him. As an example, he talked about http://www.purepwnage.com once in refreance to FPS Doug (He seems to be hinting his character was stolen, but maybe not) and calls theym “pretty funny”. OK, it’s not like he’s going all out and insulting them, but the tone he writes in just seems to be saying “They’re ok, but not as good as me.” And in all honesty, they’re a lot funnyer.
Makes good comics* rather.
I need more sleep. My mind is elsewhere.
could comments= good comics??? lol thast a bad one SAm
well I used to read CAD all the time but like someone earlier said the guy that writes it pens it draws it whatever, is full of himself. I got tired of his dislplay of nimble arms with self back patting. The only two comics that I follow all the time is EL and little-gamers. I come to this site day after day and I do not feel like im a visitor to a display but moer like im going next door to a friends house. I think we all had a place like this when we were young were it was just cool to hang out and just whatever. I remember submitting a link once and scott was so fast at posting it and creditig where it came from. Call me a geek or whatever but I kept that e-mail saying thanks. It was just the personal touch that scott puts into this site that makes his work the best. oh well starting to ramble.
Hmmm fight Scott! Fight!
You could be the next Squidi!
Does anyone still remember Squidi and the pixel wars?
if my memory serves me right PA did link to a similar thing about a month or two ago from their rival hawke, colouring his comic in with a touch screen widget.
that was all speeded up and with music.
dont be bummed though scott, seriously what you have done is impressive, and it can only be a good thing for webcomics and up and coming artists in general. dont focus on the negatives, u should be proud of the change that you have achieved, i for one am proud that i read myextralife.com, and you are a great ambassador for webcomics in general.
so what if no-one knows u invented it, we your fans know, you know. shit that is top notch recognition right there. who needs fame and all that stuff, leave it at the door and while everyone is worrying about who is nicking who’s idea go get a sandwich.
mmmmm…… lettucey
Your “how to” videos were the first i have seen for web comics. I think they are great to watch. It is interesting to see the process. I don’t actually see what the big deal is that someone else is doing it. I would feel flattered if that was me. I also find it more then amusing that the other guy is charging you to watch the entire thing. What is it like 2.00 bucks a month for premium services? Honestly I think you are the bigger “better” man. From what i have seen you always give credit where credit is due, and you must be the busiest man in webertainment with all the great things you put out. To make any kind of stink about it would seem a bit petty. Feel flattered and loved by your geektastic fans and know when it come down to it your just an all around great guy that everyone longs to be more like.
I’m not gonna post my whole post in the forum here. It comes down to this. Your video better quality in content and educational value. Consider yourself the mario64 of the cartooncreation videos.
My favorite is the way Kurtz says that “Normally, content of this “calibur” is kept safely behind a subscription wall.” when Scott has been doing it for free all along.
I wouldn’t worry about it, you did it first and much better than they did. It’s just the type of jerks they are. Heck, I’ve stopped reading CAD because I can’t stand what an egotistical jerk Buckly is and I’m about half an inch from it with Kurtz as well.
The way I look at it is you’re a lot like the guys over at PA, you do great things for your fan base, and your fans know it.
Dave: so you’re comparing scott to an overweight drop-out ex-plumber with an uncanny fascination for ’shrooms ?
Be on the lookout for my drawing vidcast called Bliary of A Blartoonist.
Scott’s “Diary” is the real deal. Nuff said.
I’m not quite sure on this one. The inspiration could have come from many things. It seems as if your judgement was a bit…biased. But I am not one to argue about it. Who knows, maybe they did steal the idea from you and not give you any credit for it. But it dosen’t seem to be a reason to call them names. Such as a post calling Tim Burkley (sp?) from CAD an arrogant twat.
My point is that there are many a diary out there, not just for webcomics. Such as the Warhammer MMO diary of a developer. They could have had the inspiration from there perhaps. But I can see where you are coming from. What I can’t seem to understand the hate.
My brain kinda just left me at the end of this, don’t you hate that? Come back muse…
just put up a dairy gallery here on your website with all the episodes in cronological order and call them “guest editions”… that’ll stop them really quickly…. however, it would probably make some people mad too…
YOU THIEFS!! YOU BASTERDISED BOB ROSS!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ross
Its not an exactly original idea, but its a good idea
Oh, come on, people. As much as I admire Scott for the professionalism he puts in his Diaries and the fact, that he probably was the first to do it, let’s not get overexcited.
I mean, do you really think that filming the way you do your webcomic is so inventious? Maybe Scott should patent it? Come on, anyone and I mean anyone (even the likes of Kurtz or Buckley) could come up with this, even without seeing Scott’s Diaries.
Not to mention that Kurtz wrote on his website, that he got mails from people asking him to do this kind of video. So it’s highly possible that he never saw Scott’s videos, but one of his fans did, and suggested Kurtz to do the same. Hell, who even cares?
The bottom line is that Scott’s Diaries are far better than the “copies” and that’s a thing that Scott can really be proud of. ‘Cuz the idea itself is so simple that really anyone would try that sooner or later.
Now is a great time to point out the gigantic metaphor of Tim Buckley and other cartoonist going on at http://www.radioactivepanda.com . It’s kind of funny to see all of his caricatures.
Scott, let me first say that your contributions to the webcomic world have been huge. Your comic is fun, accessible, and excellently drawn. Your personality and the attitude with which you approach your comic and your fans draws people in. With CAD and PVP denying you due credit, it just shows a lack of respect and maturity. As adults, it’s only the decent thing to do.
Sure, the idea isn’t exactly “new”, but I believe you’re the first to present it in such a way. While your due credit may be denied at the moment, rest assured that people know the difference. People know and appreciate the effort you’ve put into your Diaries. Whether you were denied credit because of sheer arrogance or simple negligence, the simple fact is that people know you were the one that inspired such endeavors.
Don’t let the childish people get you down, Scott. As a fellow artist, I know too well the pain of “borrowing” ideas. There are far too few people of integrity – everyone’s always looking out for “number one”. Be comforted in the knowledge that your work will always be appreciated by those who’ve grown to love it. I think, in the end, that’s all that matters, though it may be irksome at times to have your work so easily assimilated without thought, comment, or thanks.
While I agree with the apparent consensus here that Buckley is a pompous ass, I feel I should play devil’s advocate a bit.
It’s entirely possible that both Buckley and Kurtz got the idea somewhere else. It’s also valid to ask if one really needs to give credit to everyone one was inspired by.
In this particular case, there isn’t even theft of creative property: they didn’t copy a joke or a character, they copied a concept that isn’t that hard to get to independantly anyways.
My advice to you Scott is to let it go. I’m pretty sure EL fans will only think more of you if you do.
Scott:
Remember: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
You’ve got a good thing going – I wouldn’t worry about the other guys…
I have no idea where Buckley got the idea (though I have to say, its not such an out-there concept that its beyond the pale to suggest he devised it independently), but based on the veiled commentary associated with his posting of his own, Kurtz was poking fun at Buckley by making his video diary. He was doing the same thing with the “PvP Alive” thing a little while back. It seems likely to me that he never saw yours, Scott.
I do know that AppleGeeks did a similar little video thing a while back, as someone else mentions above. I honestly don’t know whether yours or theirs was first. I’d have to dig through the news archives of both sites to locate them, and that’s not something I’m willing to take the time to do.
Bottom line, if any of them did get the idea from you, I’d say its a matter of simple decency for them to say so. However, its an obvious enough concept that its entirely possible that at least 3 of you came up with the idea completely independently (I’m pretty sure Kurtz didn’t, and he implies as much in his posting, though its not completely clear what his source is).
As a generalized aside regarding the “arrogance” of Kurtz and Buckley, though, I feel they may be judged too harshly by many. As someone who sometimes comes off as arrogant myself without intending to appear that way, or even realizing that’s my demeanor (and believe me, I don’t *feel* arrogant most of the time!), I think they need to be given the benefit of the doubt. Kurtz in particular strikes me as someone who is anything but arrogant, just has a bit of a temper, and sometimes speaks without fully considering the implications of his words. I haven’t followed Buckley for nearly as long (I’ve only been reading his comic for a little over 6 months), but I suspect that his situation is somewhat similar. In any case, they both are entitled to a little bit of self-confidence. Through entirely different methods, they’ve managed to turn a hobby they love into a means of support for themselves in a very new medium. Its an achievement only a handful of other webcartoonists have pulled off to the same degree, and that’s something to be justifiably proud of. That success does give them a right to speak with a certain amount of authority in their area of expertise, it seems to me.
I say focus your anger, let the hate build up inside you, and unleash the dark side. For as it is written:
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of webcomics, for he is truly his CAD and PvP’s keeper and the finder of lost cartoonists. And you should strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to plagiarize and not acknowledge your work. And thus they will know your name is Scott when you lay your vengeance upon them…
EL 25:17
Right on brother.
Taellosse: That was a pretty thoughtful response…there is merrit to what you say.
Just a quick note, I love CAD.. and Tim Buckley never seemed that egotistical to me, just opinionated (which in my opinion is no real bad thing). Can’t say I noticed him doing that video thing, he’s been doing video diaries for a while now, but the ones I watched didnt have it, maybe its just a coincidence that he included it.. who knows?
Concerning Kurtz.. I read PvP for a month before I decided he’s the most arrogant, stuck up twat i’ve ever heard of. Always laying into other people instead of creating something halfway decent himself, tbh I don’t understand how he has any fanbase at all.
Scott: I completely agree that PA would have thrown you a bone if they’d done it, also 100% sure Woody from GU would too. Having said that, I woulda thought Tim Buckley would have done too – hence me leaning towards coincidence.
Titobob: Nicely done mate
…what happened to ‘just a quick note’ eh? :> Also, i been reading CAD for about 4 years so I might be a bit attached, and therefore biased :\
[quote - yeah, i know it doesn't work like this]
Krishna Says:
Scott:
Remember: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You’ve got a good thing going – I wouldn’t worry about the other guys…
[/quote]
I agree with that. By beeing imitated it just proves how darn good you are at what you do. So good, that people can’t come up with original ideas to top yours.
So I say, “F-them, you’re the MAN”.
And I mean it ^_^
Not to be negative Scott, but the video angle has been done by other web comic artists before. Not on a daily or even weekly basis mind you, but just filming their process. I have two videos downloaded somewhere. One from Ian who draws Machall, and the other was from Gabe at Penny Arcade showing off some inking techniques. I think Hawk over at Applegeeks has done a video in the past too, but I don’t think I have it.
As far as who did it first……. who knows.
Much love to you all the same though Scott and keep the videos coming.
well said all of you. I appreciate the even handed take. Its all good.
Can someone get a “real” link to the CAD and PVP videos?
# Den Says:
June 1st, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Can someone get a “real” link to the CAD and PVP videos?
The CAD one was for CAD premium members only afaik so can’t direct link due to login etc.
they are both on YouTube…anyone can get them.
Sometimes I wonder why I pay my CAD premium subscription if its all going out for free anyway
btw I can’t find either on youtube, can you throw some keywords our way? (yes, i suck, i know)
Most of the cartoonists start this kind of stuff because their fans e-mail them the ideas. I think what happened in both of these cases is that people watched your videos and thought it would be awesome to have them on PvP and CAD. So they e-mail Kurtz and Tim to do it. Kurtz and Tim never hear about the original source, so they don’t realize they are copying the concept. So I think they did copy you, just indirectly without knowing it. That’s just my thoughts on the subject. I’m sure that if it was brought to their attention they would put in a news post about it.
probably right, frank.
I bet Tim (or should I call him Mrs. Windows XP?) is just intimidated by your superior Mac prowress.
I love your vids, Scott. You will never see a web cartoonist fess up about where their videos idea came from. You will NEVER see Kurtz admit to anything, cause after all he is the originator or ALL webcomics.
Wow man,
Credit should be given where credit is due.
Just reallize *we* all know who the originator is..and you have a lot of fans
Stay cool.
Come on now, you obviously ripped these guys off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txxLd0pj9O0&search=drawing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae9WmtO6LF4&search=drawing
Seriously though stuff like this has been on the web for awhile, probably since someone first had photoshop and a webcamera.
Note the add dates:
Added on October 31, 2005, 11:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAysVnIyrvM&search=drawing
Added on November 28, 2005, 12:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxd6YZjumDs&search=drawing
Added on December 05, 2005, 07:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q9_5_YuNw4&search=sketch
Added on January 10, 2006, 05:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDBUJiRS3kU&search=sketch
thats after 5 minutes on youtube searching for “drawing” and “sketch” and organizing results by add date (and 2 hours on youtube watching pointless, unrelated videos…). Nevermind that most of the people doing the vids are douches =)
Are we starting a internet drama?
Ias Says: Does anyone still remember Squidi and the pixel wars?
I used to love his comic, but he let the community and stuff get to him WAAAAAYYYYY too much.
People are stupid. People are jerks. These facts are not worth getting your undies in a bunch over.
On a side note, I did agree with his basic premise that Pixel characters are still art and are protected by copyright law. I just think his whole approach to protection of his art was a bit… wrong.
Buckley’s art still sucks, though. It’s the main reason for me not to read CAD.
Okay, so if someone else using your idea to document the creation of a webcomic using time lapse is such a big deal to you, then I’d like to know where you got the idea to make a webcomic about video games in the first place. It seems to me that your decision to document it is the only really original part of the whole thing! So where did you get the idea to do this comic?