Sep 01
Pretty much one big topic tonight other than a few things here and there, and that is the state of arcades. Where they’ve been, where they are, and where they’re going. A strong topic for gamers everywhere. Special voice from the past at the end of the show so stay tuned.
Additional thanks to GoDaddy (codes LIFE1, LIFE2, and LIFE3), YouBuyNow.com, TypeFrag.com, O, Brian, Randy, Scott Fletcher, Rob Goobers, Skyhawk, Sebastian Glorbits, various contributors, and YOU!
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And if you have a minute, throw us a Digg!
you have any pics of the art you created for the video game when you were a teen?
Yep. http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottjohnson/227731120/
Another post I did a while back about it: http://www.myextralife.com/?p=2675
Me & the kidlets just went to an arcade on Thursday. Half of the games were out of order.
In the early 80′s it’s where my friends & I hung out.
Boo O, japanese mangaka draw 20 pages a week. OK, they don’t color it, they have 4 assistants and hardly sleep at all, but still.
No, just kidding. I hope the new schedule works out. I hate to say it, but some of the comics really seemed forced, like you had to put out a comic for that day and were grasping for straws.
Are you back to a regular monday night schedule or was this an exception?
Arcades are still big here in Hong Kong. There are still games like House of the Dead, Time Crisis etc. as well as Japanese drumming games, Gundam and driving games (Maxtune 3).
It’s still a buzz, but it’s bloody expensive these days – that is the main problem, at least in my mind; Arcades are TOO expensive.
Goddamit O, can’t you force Scott to watch good anime like Cowboy Bebop, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann or Neon Genesis Evangelion?
http://www.geekpressure.com is awesome. All the pictures are fantastic but Brian’s picture had me rolling in the aisles.
What Scott talked about at ~53 mins still happens here. We STILL put a token/coin on the cabinet when we’re waiting to play. The popular game at our arcade, Maxtune 3, has people gathering around to watch races and get really excited to see if people can beat the local time for a course.
It’s strange; I’m still used to all of this stuff over all the way here in Hong Kong — it’s strange to think. We all have cards for most of the games which we show each other. We each have about 15 in our wallets; they’re like Gamecards or Memory Cards.
And, this is true so if you read this and get upset then you’re overreacting, I am the only Caucasian in there most of the time.
That’s pretty freakin’ impressive for 14, man XD
Also, I couldn’t get into the chat last night for some reason
Think it’s just my browser being screwy or what?
Weird, I was just thinking about this topic the other day. Really weird…
Great show there. THIS was the kind of show that I listen to the show for (btw I still love Brian and use his face as a display picture on MSN. Is that wrong?).
Yea, arcades don’t have that kind of feeling they used to have back in their prime. I was old enough to enjoy arcades when i was a kid in the early-mid 90′s. I would spent over 20 bucks per visit. I would get excited for the gameworks in the local mall or the arcades in vegas. But as i grew older, and consoles that were on par with the performance of arcades, they just didn’t have that fun factor anymore.
I visited an arcade with a friend a while back, and I saw that the most popular games still out there are those “vs.” 2d fighting games. You’d see the occasional music/rhythm game being played but you’d see guys lined up with their quarters waiting to beat the next guy.
I think arcades will still be around but not for the enthusiasts. Just for those quickplayers looking to have some fun. That Xmen 4player coop arcade game was my game of choice
My parents used to say that I never really needed much of an exercise routine: just take me to the mall’s arcade and let me loose with about $5. I’d get so excited (15 and younger) that I’d start jumping up and down from playing AND WATCHING OTHERS PLAY, and I’d come out completely out of breath and sweating like crazy. It was great!
I used to tell people when I was growing up that I wanted to own and operate and arcade when I grew up.
These days, now that I have my business degree, I sometimes try and figure out how to make arcades profitable again; I still think I would be happiest doing something business related with video games. Unfortunately, I can only think of 4 ways:
1) virtual reality: Discussed in the audio; holodecks ARE getting closer with the advent of a “omni-directional treadmill” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnidirectional_treadmill) which is designed so that no matter how far or in which direction you walk, you stay in the exact same location (kinda needed if you’re going to actually move around for the game so you don’t hit the wall). It’s about the size of a university lecture hall now, but it proves that the day of Holodecks may be closer then we think…;)
2) “mechanical reality”: Tthink of the old Full-Size After Burner games, make it so that most if not all of the games are like that, with full moving parts, and that would attract; problem is that they’d probably be prohibitvely expensive to make and to maintain.
3) “party centers”: pay a few bucks up front, and either bring your own system or rent out one of ours (a few more bucks, guaranteed mid-high to high range quality, change out systems every year to two years) and rent some games from a pre-bought lineup of top stuff; combine with food area and WAN hotspot for personal business = instant LAN party; downsides are security (burning of games, stealing CDs, etc) and market appeal (how willing are you to go pay for the privillage of gaming with potentially abusive strangers when you can just invite your gaming friends over and have a LAN party at your place for (almost) free?).
4) “movie games”: set up like a Disney/Universal Studios Ride, everyone has a job/gun and the entire team gets points and prizes if they’re successfull (say, about 10 people per team minimum). Extremely high qualit graphics, massive screen, and the animatronics to create VERY believable games. These games would be released like movies (similiar marketing and time frame), which helps to deffer costs. Only a few needed per town, possibly even as an addition to existing movie theaters. Downside: Expensive initial setup if done along, constant R&D and maitenance budget/staff (if you think it’s easy reconfiguring all of the animatronics at a place similiar to Disney, then I wish to shake your hand Mr. Tony Baxter), tough sell for theaters and game makers (whos’ budgets are already stretched pretty thin and run pretty high these days).
Other then those, can’t really think of a way for them to get it to work, and all of them have some major flaws which home gaming tends to either not need or render extremely cheap. Well, other then Holodecks, but that could be years away still.
At least they had a good run for a time. They will always have a special place in my heart for keeping me skinny!
Ben… good stuff, but let’s keep going…
Scott, what would the arcade of the future look like? So here are my solutions to making a successful arcade in the future.
#1 More and better race car games
For me, race car games were the best cause I could trash talk all my friends during the race, but also because you had that magical cockpit that made it feel like you were really driving. Have a worldwide, networked race NASCAR style where your arcade gets 5 cars and you race 30 others from arcades around the world. Now you trash talk your friends and you have live racers to go up against.
But let’s not stop at 5 laps… let’s do a real race, 50 laps or more. $10 gets you a 30 minute race with 35 other racers in a cockpit. SOLD!
#2 First person shooters
DDR gives you that dance pad and Wii Fit has that step thing, can’t we combine that with a first person shooter? 4-man teams, each member picks a set weapon built into the machine and that is your role (a sniper, a heavy gunner and 2 regular guys).
Again, co-op this with teams from other arcades and let the killing spree begin.
Basically this is a LAN party on steroids… make the tools of the game more lifelike where you can’t replicate in homes for a reasonable amount.
Expand on this…. anyone? Good ideas, bad ideas?
i used to go to arcades w/ my hubby where we live. then one by one they all closed down. it’s a sad world without arcades…
for those who missed it:
http://arcade.hofle.com/
(to download arcade ambiance audio, just close your eyes, and you’re there!!!)
Hmmm…interesting stuff, Notoriouslb3, sounds like natural extensions of my number 2, in fact. A natural extension would be even more exciting stuff. How about “After Burner 24″, where you’re put in one of the cockpits and fly with – and possibly against – 11 to 23 other players in an airborne dogfight?
I also recall a tank game that came out in the mid- to late- 90s where it was a big screen with a “control pod” where you had almost free reign to go out and shoot anything in sight. Perhaps expanding on that with other types of game modules – artillery, anti-aircraft and attack chopper – each with different feels, and all linked up for a unified battle experience.
Thinking about it further, a war sim would be an interesting first idea for the “Disney Game” theater scenario. Specifically, everyone is one of the gunners on a battleship during WWII in the middle of a large fleet engagement. For every target you hit, you get points for your station and a small amount for the ship’s total, every target you miss takes some life from your station, as well as a tiny bit of life from the ship itself. When more then 60% of the seats are “dead”, the ship is sunk. If the score reaches high enough, your ship moves on to the next level.
Again, the problems of cost, sponsorship and maintenance time/costs make this a daunting proposition in real life, but it’s still an interesting idea to play with right now.
Sorry for the double post, no way to edit: awesome stuff, Doctorsoul!
you’re forgetting one key point. Street Fighter 4 is being released on arcade and it will bring back the glory
except we did talk about that, and can’t see how it will.
At least, not by itself, anyway. Why go to an arcade to play it when you can just buy it outright for one of the various systems it’s coming out on and play in the comfort of your own home? It would need to be one of many awesome arcade games coming out, or have some VERY compelling gimicks in the arcade version that you can’t get on the consoles to get the crowds we want back in arcades.
but what about the racing games? and ddr? you have to play those in the arcade to really enjoy them.
That, too, was covered in the audio, though only in passing: those games are what are keeping most arcades open right now, but they don’t have the universal appeal that the old games had. I’ve been in arcades where three people were standing around an empty DDR machine because they were afraid to get up there until I went up first. Sort of the same thing with current racing games: not enough universal appeal. And it’s kind of pointless: you can only race against one other person, the rest are computer controlled, and if you’re not first, you tend to lose. So not enough to draw people to watch.
Also, who says you can’t enjoy DDR at home? Sure it requires a little space, but if you like the game that much, clearing the room for two pads shouldn’t be that difficult. They also sell some higher end model pads that better mimic the “cabinet” in the arcade, so players who are REAL enthusiasts can buy those and have that awesome experience and precision in the comfort of their own home, knowing that they won’t have to wait in line if they lose. And if you want people to watch your mad skills, call over friends.
So, yeah, in a niche sort of way, DDR and racing games are keeping arcades alive…if by “alive”, you mean on life support. I’m thinking they validate the existence of “movie theater” and “back-room restaurant” arcades (you know they kind: 3-4 games so bored kids with ADHD will have something to keep them quiet for a while…), but they cannot really bring back the old-style, jam-packed video arcades of the olden days. At least, not in their current form, and I’m not really sure what form DDR would have to take to do it (racing games have already been explored on how they can “evolve” to revive arcades above).
Anyone have thoughts? How could DDR be expanded to attract people back to arcades?
Along the same line as O’s comment on the smaller ‘Garage’ game outlets along his area. While I don’t see many around Canada, I have heard the larger “Game Centers” are popular in Europe as one of the evolutions of the ‘Arcade’.
Aka: Game Centers like “Switchbox” in Calgary, AB, where you might find 50+ Higher end gaming PC’s, pre-loaded with the most popular and latest games, and fancy software behind the scenes that locks the players out of windows and virtually mounts CD’s. While also having 2-5 of each of hte mainstream consoles on big screen TV’s. From the ones I’ve found that exist around Canada and the US, $4-5 / hour seems the going rate.
Does this have a future? Is their really a large market for this? True, you can play these games at home IF you have this console system, or IF you have a high-end enough gaming PC…the locations I’ve been to like switchbox push that their advantage over staying at home is providing a great ‘Social environment’ for the hobby to meet other gamers, play together, make friends, and generally work against the “Anti-social” nature of gaming alone or with a small group in your home………..
Thoughts?
(Yes this was REALLY long…)
Seems like we’re both making long posts here.
Similar to the party center idea I made. Good to know someone thinks it’s a good idea.
Now all we need is someone who’s willing to try that down here, and we might actually get somewhere.
Question is: who’s gonna take the plunge? I wish I could, but I haven’t got the starting capital (yet).
DarkMage, your welcome to shoot me an e-mail at: scott (dot) haner (at) gmail (dot) com
If yah wanna chat more, but yes, I think it is a great idea, I know it’s been three years since I’ve been in the area to the local ‘SwitchBox’, but the last few times 3-4 of us went to go back then, even 2:00 PM on a sunny, warm, friday afternoon, 1-2 machines out of about 60 were available!
So potential….I think so, I’m currently in a very early concept phase / business plan phase to hammer out the viability….but I’m always open to chat about it more!
as i was biking home from work listening to the episode and the 20 mins of SF IV talk I realized i should have listened to the episode first before commenting.
as to your question:
It will bring back the localized rivalry that SF II arcade created. you put a SF IV arcade machine at a 7-11 close to a high school and you will see crowds during lunch and during school. arcades = audience.
consoles = fun but no real spectacle.
Scott, I might take you up on your offer over the weekend.
mario, you do have a valid point in the SF IV can attract a small audience to watch the games, but…really, now, are you there to watch or are you there to play? If there’s nothing ELSE worth playing, then you’ll either have a small crowd of watchers that fades in and out of existence (assuming it crops up at all) or you’ll have the DDR syndrome of very long lines for 1 game.
And as was said before, I don’t dispute that SFIV justifies the existance of a “7/11″ arcade or a movie theater arcade. The issue I present is that it’s not enough for a DEDICATED arcade, i.e. one that can be profitable with its PRIMARY product being pay-to-play video gaming, not merely having it as a supplement to their real product (7/11′s being convenience foods and goods, for example). And 1 cabinet that everyone plays is not enough to make a dedicated arcade profitable or even sustainable: most – if not all – of the machines there have to be viable, or else the arcade will fail.
And before someone tries to suggest “Why not an arcade with just a bunch of SFIV machines in it”, that would be like said 7/11 only selling Twinkies and Budweiser because they’re the most popular things to buy (no idea what it really is, but the point is made): sure it’ll be SOME people’s dream come true, but it won’t be for a lot of people, and they’ll miss out on a large target audience they’d otherwise have access to with more variety. And I’m willing to bet that there’s not enough U. Appeal in just 1 cabinet for it to be able to draw the numbers needed to be a sustainable business.
Now, if SFV comes out as a full-spec holographic arena with fighters full-scale and surround sound effects that crowds can hear (think Battle Bots with Ryu and Guile in the arena instead), THEN you’ll have a valid case for SF bringing about a possible resurrection of arcades…though as more of a sporting-arena venue or…hmmm…as more of a syndicated event (again, like Battle Bots).
And like I alluded above: I’m not interested in WATCHING people play. I want to PLAY. And not just the one game: I want to play ALL of them!! (queue mad laughing and thunder track)
Wow…I like this…wish I had this much to contribute more often!