Apr 28
In the car, thinking about serious stuff. Sharing it with you in audio form.
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I’m with you that healthcare is a wreck. I don’t know that I know how to fix things, but I know it’s not working the way it is. I live in Massachusetts where we are required to have health insurance or face heavy tax penalties. A large chunk of my paycheck goes towards my company’s insurance, which is terrible and covers nothing, but I have to have it. While I realize that it was the state’s intent to force companies to offer insurance to their employees, I can’t help but feel that it’s those of us at the bottom of the pile who are really getting screwed.
This coming from a Canadian :
I’m with you on all of your concerns and our health care system may be slow but one thing’s for sure is that it’s never going to let you die without helping and giving you proper treatment first.
The problem I see though is that since it’s free (and keep in mind that this is coming from somebody who practically never goes to see the doctor) there is probably a throng of people that are waiting in line that shouldn’t be there in the first place. The first thing they (the hospitals) advise about is to stay home if you only have a cold or something minor that you can recover from with a little rest. But I have a strong feeling that people just don’t listen and drive in to the ER regardless. That, to me, is a problem.
There has been something that’s been implemented lately which lets you get fast diagnosis/treatment from private firms (or semi-private I can’t recall) for a fee. I would guess that it’s all depending on the case at hand and prices may vary but I’ve heard good things from it nonetheless. Giving something of a choice like that, to me, is the way to go.
One thing’s for sure though, is that even if our system has it’s flaws, I would not want to live someplace where they just let you straight up die on your own because you don’t have the proper insurance plan.
Being a kid (16) still, I really don’t know how to feel about this. I had all four wisdom teeth removed recently, and I knew I needed the surgery. Upon seeing the bill, however, I really pleaded with my parents to not make my have the procedure done. I figured that I could wait untill I was on my own, and able to pay for it myself. Needless to say, my parents were steadfast about making me have the surgery. But at the same time I still felt bad about the money.
So I suppose my position is, if we need to socialize medicine to make it affordable… then we we should at least go halfway.
Totally disagree with free healthcare. My daughter had to have major neuro-surgery last year, I found a great online community that was a great support for my family as we went through a very scary time. Many of the people on the forum where from Canada, and the UK where socialized medicine exists. Guess what? All of them had more complications due to the insane waits brought on by being a number in a sea of we’ll take anybody medicine. Even with all the insurance headaches we still got her treatment finished months before others in Canada even got a second appointment. You can thank all the government bureaucracy for that. My biggest issue is this. Name one thing government has made less complicated by taking it over. Seriously. If you want to wait in line like the DMV just to see your doctor then I guess you should be able to buy into that but leave me and my tax dollars out of that mess. I will gladly pay out of my own pocket to get the best care I can and stay out of the mess that we’ll get from socialized healthcare. I guess I just would fall under “life isn’t fair” category. Some people are born better looking and smarter and have an easier track in life, so do we have a duty to make everyone ugly and make them eat lead so their stupid to level the playing field? I just don’t understand why the government should “fix” everything, when they always end up making things more complicated and we end up with worse results. By the way had my daughter’s surgery been postponed even a month later she would have experienced brain damage and host of other problems, I am so thankful I am not in country where I am told where and when I can go to doctor as I wouldn’t have the beautiful healthy girl running around my house that I do today.
Here in the United Kingdom the NHS (National Health Service) is very good. I have had relatives say that up in Scotland (North of the UK) its not so good. The general problem with the NHS is that you will most certainly have to wait in a queue for non-critical surgery. I have had relatives wait in a queue for for several months. If the surgery is cosmetic the NHS will not pay for that and you personally would be expected to pay. Dentistry is something that you can also get on the NHS. Below a certain age and dentistry is drastically reduced and in most cases free, if you are at university then you can also get free dentistry. But on the whole the majority of dentists are private.
Over the past few years there has been a rather nasty superbug called “C Difficile” which has claimed many lives in UK hospitals. One of the main reasons is that reportedly cleanliness is not what it used to be. I believe one of the main problems is that the cleaning has been taken out of the hands of nurses and uk hospitals rely on private contractors for cleaning.
I definitely agree with you that it is a highly complex problem and that it does need to be fixed. But I feel that socialized medicine in its purest from will probably not solve it permanently. I feel we should do something but we need to be very careful in trying to tweak the system.
A side note of sorts on the idea that public health care it will cause a us to move towards socialism (some may say that is good and some may say that is bad and I will leave it up to you to make your own decision) but a great book on North Korea’s path to becoming communist(which I know is different from socialism) is Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty. It is very long but it is a great look at how Communism grew in North Korea. So if you are interested in a historical and fairly objective look at how a nation turned away from capitalism read it and compare it to what is happening in America today and make up your own mind as to whether or nor America is or is not or should or should not abandon capitalism.
And I would like to state that here in America every one is entitled to their own beliefs as to how we should be governed and I would never want to imply that anyone is not entitled to an opinion different then mine. Iron sharpens iron and healthy discussion and thought makes us all wiser.
I’m sorry Jeremiah but I do not at all agree with your opinion. Do you not think that as far as healthcare is concerned it is a much better mentality to not have to worry about how much money you potentially have to pay. If you were in the UK and your daughter’s condition was considered by a doctor to be life threatning or critical then she would have been treated quickly. We also do have private healthcare in the UK aswell.
“Name one thing government has made less complicated by taking it over” If you have a medical issue you can be assured of care no matter how much or how little money you have. To me it seems as if the focus is more on money rather on the health of the patients in the USA. Feel free to argue with me on that if you wish.
Darth, I have first hand accounts of people in the UK with her condition that had to wait months and as a result permanent damage occurred. The other issue is quality of care. I put far more trust in getting the best quality of care by the best paid doctors. If the government is controlling the pay and doctors can still go into a private healthcare where they will make more money I can assure you that the best care will not be the public funded. Also we do have facilities for those without coverage already here in the states in Los Angeles we have the county health facilities which people with no financial means can go and get care. The bottom line is my quality of healthcare I am receiving will go down if the government takes over and I have to wait in a queue. Right now I don’t wait in a queue for several months for anything I need taken care of. Explain to me how a queue would be better for my quality of health when I currently don’t have to wait. I am not saying it’s perfect, but neither is a system where you still pay for service through a higher tax rate and yet still wait to get treated. I am tired of the government trying to fix everything and making it worse.I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
Next Phileas Club Special: Socialized Medicine for Americans.
As a bleeding-heart-tree-hugging-secular-progressive-liberal-flag-burning-hippy-arugula-eating-elitist-high-taxing-gun-banning-pot-smoking-gay-marrying person like I am, I think my point is obvious and redundant, and therefore leave you with this short statement. I don’t want to be poor, get sick and die.
One of the many problems with this conversation in the US is that it’s been shaped by powerful groups who have no interest in any change:
* There isn’t a binary switch between All-American ‘private health’ and evil (probably French) ’socialised medicine’.
* ‘The government’ doesn’t/won’t need to ‘take over’ health care for it to improve
* Public and private funding can co-exist within a health system
* People with extreme amounts of money will always have access to top-level health care under any system, but top-level health care isn’t needed across the board for there to be a massive benefit to society.
It’s fascinating to see just how much the AMA (with far more power than any comparable medical lobby in any other Western country) and the insurance companies (ditto) have managed to define the rhetoric within the US.
Do real reading (NOT ‘first hand accounts’) on the health systems of Australia, NZ, the UK, France, and Sweden. They’re all quite different, but they all show that by balancing the interests of doctors, insurance companies, politicians, the rich, and the general public (instead of just the first 4), you can get a system that, on the whole, doesn’t aggressively screw over anyone below the upper middle class. It’s a complex area, as Scott said, with no easy answers: but re-framing the debate within the US is IMO a crucial first step.
Cheers
Colin
It’s not the Federal Gov’t’s Job to enforce health care.
You’ll lose skilled doctors because of the high cost of malpractice insurance. They will go where it’s cheaper. So, you’re left with lesser-skilled doctors, un-specialized care, etc.
Privitization is the way it works best.
Bottom line, we’re not a socialist country. We will never be. If you don’t want to be poor, sick, and die, then you better learn to invest in insurance. Stop spending money on frapp-o-latte-tree-hugger-8oz coffees, and take care of your family.
Only just over 3 years of this crap and counting.
Jeremiah wrote: “Right now I don’t wait in a queue for several months for anything I need taken care of. Explain to me how a queue would be better for my quality of health when I currently don’t have to wait.”
Tolwyn wrote: “If you don’t want to be poor, sick, and die, then you better learn to invest in insurance.”
Charles Dickens wrote:
“At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,” said the gentleman, taking up a pen, “it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.”
“Are there no prisons?”
“‘Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
“And the Union workhouses.” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”
“Both very busy, sir.”
“Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”
Why do we put more value in fixing roads than fixing people?
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That’s a skewed value system. I suggest we switch and have the gov’t pay for healthcare & privatize road care.
Living in the Great City of Seattle getting to Canada is very easy. Spending a weekend in Vancouver seems to happen when ever people come to visit from out of town…
After chatting with MANY people Canadian’s about their health care system I can tell you 101% say “IT KICKS ASS, and it must really suck to be you”. They also ask what it is like to have a monkey as president. And have talked to people in Canada who hare had really horrible injuries, who have been “taken care of” above and beyond.
Lord Craigly
To put it simply, more government involvement will only make things worse. The best thing we can do is try to come up with a solution that takes the government out of the equation completely and rely on the private sector and open market forces. We need a solution that will encourage more people to enter the medical field, encourage greater competition between medical institutions, and reduce the impact of elements such as insurance which provide false support for high prices. Once the government gets involved, we’re all doomed. (over-exageration, but you get the point)
# Novan Leon: Actually no, I don’t get the point.
Try to name a single role that the US Government performs well, ratio that to all the roles they perform, and you’ll see what I’m driving at.
oo come on you guys what if the ER was like waiting at the DMV. i think we all know how bad and slow that would be. I personally had to wait at the DMV for 2 hours just to take my road test enough said.
Move to Canada, we get free healthcare, and if you don’t want to wait, then go see a private doctor, it’s about the same amount of meoney as a regular doctor in the US. On top of that you could have all the other benefits of living in Canada like the beutifull scenery and awesome food. Plus if the rest of the world decides to invade the US, you’ll be safe in Canada cause everyone like us.